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blue_myriddn
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Mr.Fixit wrote:

 Bush & Co made a mockery of regulation - they did not believe in it, and systematically castrated it. 

Ah yes, keep your head in the sand and buy in to the "its all Bush's fault" otherwise government regulation would have worked out just perfectly.   Nevermind that Deepwater started operations in 2001 which means it had to be approved by the Clinton administration.  Or nevermind that the explosion occurred 15 monthes in to Obama's presidency, a time in which the recomended gov't instpections weren't occurred because the MMS believed BP when they said it was safe.

Doesn't matter who is in the white house, regulation on the scale required to keep things going is beyond the capacity of the US government - in required manpower, fiscal resources and most importantly appropriate motiviation.   I don't know how many regulatory fumbles it will take until you can see that light.  Seems like your bipartisian blinders are slowing down that process quite a bit.

MrFixit wrote:

What is the real downside to them when these disasters happen?

 

Depreciation of investor capital.  Widescale firing at the executive level.  If you think that this hasn't impacted the oil industry dramatically you quite simply aren't paying enough attention.  Not only did BP loose over 50% of its market value and massive reputation, it is likely that the Gulf Oil operation is going to be crippled for anyone else hoping to do business there.  Last I heard there were 55 pending applications for deep-sea drilling that are now in limbo due to BP's actions.   If you don't think the people holding those contracts are steaming mad at BP for pissing in their pond you are absolutely in the dark.    Look closer and you will find that companies like Exxon and Shell as well as much smaller players have a VERY large incentive in keeping wildcard activities like this BP spill from occurring.

Oh - and if you think that 20 billion is a "hit" to their profit, you are mistaken.  They bring in 6 billion a quarter and were able to negotiate with the Obama administration to fund that 20 billion over 4 years (I bet at 0%) allowing them to easily cover costs.  That settlement agreement was a real win for BP and not the stingning punishment you may imagine.  Picture the conversation with Obama starting something like "step in to my office and lets see what we can do here at the White House to help you out of this pickle" and then you will have a real view of what is going on.

Once you understand that growth is as bad as reduction your perception of economics changes forever.
Mr.Fixit
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 Meh, you can brush off the de-regulation mantra of the republican party all you like - you want small government, you will see a lot more of this stuff happening.  That's part of the line.  (And Clinton was way too sucked into the de-regulation bullcrap by the then-republican congress).

Who cares if other industry oil people are mad at BP - since when does that mean a hill of beans?  The question is this - do ALL the other oil companies have safety standards that they adhere to and BP was the "lone idiot" ?  Yeah, sure Wink   They grouse, but facts are facts - companies cut corners *whenever* they feel they can.  sure, nobody expected this disaster to happen, and if it didn't, then booya, more profit.

I say Obama gave em a slap, since the republicans basically called it a travesty of the first order - you been paying attention? 

Market value?  pfft, who cares about market value - you seriously think BP will not recover their value in less than 2 years?  Remember, they deal in oil, and we buy oil from TERRORISTS.  So, any company can do pretty much anything and we will eventually bend over again and let em go to town.  the scope of our national security issue on oil is SO vast that the oil companies get a license to kill, pure and simple.

I'd love to see Obama lay down more smack - think Congress will help him make that happen?  Will the American people accept higher gas prices?

 

 

I LOVE how 15 months into Obama we want to forget about Bush - I heard about Clinton for ALL EIGHT YEARS of Bush's run.   Heck, I heard that Clinton was responsible for the late 7th year economic crisis that Bush had - and that is why Bush had to start massive bailouts...   So,  I got 6 and a half more years to not nice person about Bush with IMPUNITY. 

And, seriously, Bush and Bush Sn are "oil men" - they went to war for the oil industry.  SERIOUSLY.  The party mantra was "drill baby drill" and we have a drilling crisis and we want to blame Obama... /pfft   You honestly think if McDuffy and Palin were in power, BP would have been regulated?  

I am everything. I am anything. I am automatic. I am yesterday. I am everyday. I am gonna be... REBORN!!!
blue_myriddn
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Mr.Fixit wrote:

 The question is this - do ALL the other oil companies have safety standards that they adhere to and BP was the "lone idiot" ? 

Pretty much.  Here's an example of what I am talking about: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/business/7062695.html  That company that the gov't went "soft" on now runs safely.  Hmm.. You mean they did it WITHOUT big government getting on their case?  Who would have figured that?

 

Mr.Fixit wrote:
Market value?  pfft, who cares about market value

 The executives who's fortune is tied up in market value.  The guys who get their big fat bonuses based on market value.  Market value IS the currency of the corporate elite.  You had better believe that those people care a GREAT deal about market value.

 

Mr.Fixit wrote:

we want to blame Obama... /pfft   You honestly think if McDuffy and Palin were in power, BP would have been regulated?

 

Two things.  1. I never blamed Obama.  I blamed the government.  There is a difference - a big one.   2. McDuffy and Palin would not have regulated BP.

YOu seem to think that I am opposed to regulation.  I am not.  A free market is not "free" if it is unregulated.  That is because there is a very clear business advantage to not running your business in a "free" market if you have the power to manipulate the market.  This is why lobbyists make so much cash.  My point is that the US Government is not capable of regulating the market, they are only capable of biasing the market towards corporations with enough money and low morality to buy the government.  Their attempts to regulate are causing more problems than they are solving.   Leave it in the hand of industry players  (trade unions, Industrial Liscensing groups, National Business Associations) and let the government empower and regulate THOSE institutions to do the work that they cannot do themselves.

Once you understand that growth is as bad as reduction your perception of economics changes forever.
blue_myriddn
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blue_myriddn wrote:

How much is the US Government paying out for failing to uphold their regulatory requirements?  For sleeping on the job and taking bribes rather than being diligent?

It appears, I have the answer to my question - $10 billion.  That actually works out fairly well, 50% of the cost gets picked up by BP and 50% by the other contributing party .

 

Citing steep losses from the Gulf Coast oil spill, BP said Tuesday that it plans to seek a tax credit of up to $10 billion from the U.S. government, or about half the amount it pledged to aid victims of the disaster.

...Under U.S. corporate tax law, companies can take credits on up to 35 percent of their losses. For BP, that means a savings on its tax bill of about $10 billion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/27/AR2010072704437.html?nav=rss_email/components

Once you understand that growth is as bad as reduction your perception of economics changes forever.
Joshua
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LOL, hilarious.  Reply to this Post
JoshuaR
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